themixtrovert:
“i can’t do that because of my religious beliefs”
okay
“you can’t do that because of my religious beliefs”
not okay
therepublicofrapunzel:
Morality is not subjective. If the Bible says x is wrong, x is wrong whether you are a Christian or not. You’re not exempt from the truth because you don’t believe it.
pishposh-habberdash:
Except if you’re not a Christian you don’t believe that the bible is truth so….
therepublicofrapunzel:
Yeah and if you’re colorblind you don’t think the sky is blue.
The sky is blue whether you believe it or not. The Bible is true whether you believe it or not.
cheshireinthemiddle:
The sky is actually black. You specifically perceive it as blue and a colorblind person may perceive it as orange or grey. A mantis shrimp sees it as colors that you cant even comprehend.
Your views =//= absolute truth
burningonyx: (Me)therepublicofrapunzel Well my Bible says Y is wrong and X is right, and since my Bible is the One True Bible, if it says Y is wrong, then Y is wrong whether you are a Satanist or not. You’re not exempt from the truth because you don’t believe it. So now imagine a world where Satanists (as you likely think we are, not as we actually are) force our beliefs on everyone, the way you want to do to everyone.
Oh, are you horrified and terrified right now? Good. That’s how I feel when you pull shit like this. Because that thing where you try to make everyone subject to your shitty religion’s beliefs? Do you know what they call that when Muslims do it? It’s called Sharia Law. Congrats, therepublicofrapunzel, you are a proponent of the Christian version of Sharia Law.
“The sky is blue whether you believe it or not. The Bible is true whether you believe it or not.”
The sky “is” blue because that’s how most humans in our current culture see it. Funny thing, though, the ancient Greeks - who physically saw the same range of colors we do - didn’t have a word for blue. What we now call blue was lumped in with some reds and purples as “wine colored.” There are cultures alive today who don’t see blue the way we do, who see it as a shade of red, or as a shade of gray or black, even though they’re physically seeing the exact same color you are. We can even see this sort of thing in our own culture; how many straight women can clearly distinguish colors like “mother of pearl,” “creme,” and “eggshell” as distinct from “white”? Quite a few. But guess what? Men can be taught to do the same. Color is cultural. It is subjective.
And hey, maybe our sky “is” neon octarine to the people of Betelguese 5, and we humans only *think* the sky is blue.
This is why philosophers like Robert Anton Wilson need to be taught in school. Nothing is absolute, nothing is objective, everything is relative and subjective. If objective reality exists, we have no way of perceiving it because everything we perceive will always and forever be subjective, due to the limitations of our senses. Nothing short of becoming God ourselves will change that.
What you see when you look at an apple is not the apple itself; you are seeing your brain’s interpretation of the light bouncing off an apple (or other sensory data like touch). That shiny red apple “is” nothing more than a hallucination your brain generated based on a tiny percentage of a wee sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum. Apples would look very different if you could see infrared, or ultraviolet, or X-rays. Apples would look very different if you could see in more than just three dimensions; even a 4-dimensional shape is nearly impossible for the human mind to comprehend without being able to see it, and the only human people who *might* have seen a 4D apple are people on psychedelic drugs. But I guarantee when they come back to our reality, that sight will be like a half-forgotten dream to them at best.
THE MAP IS NOT THE TERRITORY! REALITY IS (MOSTLY) A HALLUCINATION, A SHARED DELUSION!
https://www.tumblr.com/dashboard/blog/burningonyx/185194811990
Shifting growth
Oct. 6th, 2015 03:04 pmI bring this all up because he then said that he thought the growth, having nowhere left on the planet to go, would head up into outer space, into orbiting habitats; and that if it didn't go up there, it would just stay where it was. But that was in the 80's, and I've noticed that the westward pattern continued, if you keep in mind that "west" is a relative direction; the US empire is failing, and the growth is shifting over to China and Japan. With this in mind, I guess as long as civilization doesn't utterly collapse, the growth will continue going west again, unless we do something to shift it into space, or work to even out the growth so everyone on the planet can be comfortable, which Wilson keeps pointing out we have the technology to do.
More LaVey idiocy
Jun. 24th, 2015 08:14 pmAgain, I shall try to write this in E-Prime, AKA "English without any form of the word 'be.'" I will put "is," "are," and other forms of "be" into "suspicious quotes" if I feel I cannot avoid using them.
I keep seeing blogs where their owners keep talking about their depression in a way that seems almost like glorifying their depression, and talking about wanting to die, giving me the impression that they think their depression makes them special somehow. These vary from "oh my gawd my pain is so unique; nobody could ever possibly understand how much pain I'm in" to things like "I an such a creative genius because I'm soooo depressed."
I do not know whether they really have clinical depression or not. I do not intend to dismiss clinical depression, either. I have clinical depression, and so I know firsthand that depression will make you feel bad no matter how hard you try to cheer up. But it's one thing to complain on your blog about the effects of depression, and another thing entirely to act like having depression makes you some kind of creative genius or better than those who don't have depression. First, it makes no sense at all. Secondly, in my own experience, my depression tends to suck away the energy and will I need to make use of my creativity. I won't claim that this is true of everyone... and I won't say all these "depression makes me so special" people are lying about being depressed... but I don't see how being truly, clinically depressed could possibly help in any way.
Then there are the people who seem to be genuinely depressed, and they keep talking about it in a way that focuses so hard on the depression, I don't see how it could possibly do anything but make the depression worse.
You see, language has power. Anyone who doesn't agree hasn't thought about it enough, or hasn't had the right experiences. Words can and do hurt; just look into how many people got depression or other mental issues from the damaging power of words. People can use words to heal or to hurt. People can use words soothingly or violently. I know, because my own issues resulted from people in my childhood lobbing the verbal equivalents of hand grenades at me constantly. My childhood was like a warzone, the only place I felt safe was at home. I still live with the damage, and I still have issues of lobbing verbal grenades at anyone I interpret - whether correctly or not - as a threat. At least, online I do. Offline, I am quieter and more polite; though that is as much a defense mechanism as the verbal grenades are.
( More under the cut )
Trying to be less of an asshole.
Oct. 15th, 2012 06:22 pmI have observed, over the years, a tendency in individuals identifying as vegans of behaving in a manner not unlike those of certain religious zealots. This behavior is annoying and insulting and often full of hatred, and when I felt I could no longer tolerate such behavior, I lashed out at vegans in general with the same sort of behavior. In my loathing towards proselytization and "forgetfulness of past orthodoxies," it would seem I became guilty of the same behaviors I was frustrated with.
I still oppose dogmatism of any and all kinds, and I still detest the treatment of veganism as some kind of new religion where all must convert or perish. However, in light of what I percieve as a small percentage of vegans who do NOT display such religious zeal for their cause, I will attempt in future to better mind my own behavior.
The sort of people I tend to oppose seem to me to only care about being right. It seems to me that their belief "is" that they are right and everyone else is wrong; that not only do they think us wrong, they think us immoral, unethical, even evil. I no longer wish to give them any more support for the beliefs of theirs which I feel are in error. ("The beliefs of theirs I feel are in error" referring to their apparent perception of meat-eaters, not to their choice to eat no meat.)
I do not actually care about "being right," no matter how my words said in anger and frustration may sometimes indicate to the contrary. I simply tend to get very frustrated, and then angry, when so many people in the world seem to feel that "being right" "is" the most important thing in the universe to them. It frustrates me because this obsession with "being right" tends to cause hostility and anger, hatred and war. I would very much love to edit this obsession for "being right" out of all human brains; I think world peace would move much closer to the realm of possibility if that notion were excised from humankind. Because it seems to me that this notion has been so thoroughly pounded into our brains that I - someone who hates the obsession with "being right" - keep finding myself lapsing into the same mentality when provoked.
There. I make no claim that I succeeded completely in my quest for non-judgmental words, but I think I did fairly well.
There, I fixed it.
Oct. 15th, 2012 06:02 pmby Anton Szandor LaVey ©1987
With edits by Alexander Antonin ©2012
1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.
2. Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.
3. Projection—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.
4. Self-deceit—It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements” but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!
5. Herd Conformity—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.
6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.
7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.
8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.
9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.
10. Solipsism—The real world DOES exist. Granted, a large portion of the perceived world is invented by your brain, but that's based on data from the real world. Anyone who thinks they're the only person in the world, and that they create 100% of reality, is a delusional fool.
Don't believe everything you read.
Oct. 13th, 2012 06:11 pmHowever, I don't believe everything he says any more than I do anyone else (which I'm sure he'd be thrilled to hear). There are1 a couple examples:
1. He makes a good point about how the political correctness movement sometimes goes too far (he wasn't opposed to the movement completely, just criticizing them a little). One of his examples (in "Cosmic Trigger III") was related to the gay pride events. He said that if anyone tried to have a "straight pride" event, that they'd get lambasted or worse for it. (This isn't to say he was against homosexuality; far from it, Wilson was perhaps the most open minded person in the world while he lived.) While I agree with the larger point he was making (that political correctness can be taken too far), he seems to have missed the point of gay pride events. He seems to have failed to grok the fact that such events are necessary in a mostly heterosexual society because, as the vernacular goes, "Every day is a Straight Pride Parade." So Gay Pride events become a way of opposing the status quo. Gay Pride events are a way of smashing open people's usual reality tunnel and invading. As a Discordian, I think if Wilson had understood this, he would have given it two thumbs up.
2. On page 205 of Cosmic Trigger III, middle of the second-to-last paragraph, he wrote:
"The academic post-modernists always start with the World as Puzzle view and unobtrusively slip into Puzzle Solved view. The latter, the solution to the puzzle, always curiously resembles the works of a second-rate German ideologue named Karlm Marx, whose theories, having failed notoriously in practice, live on only among these academics (and, I must admit, in China and Cuba: two excellent countries to live in, if you want to have Political Correctness hammered into you 24 hours a day.)"Here Wilson shows ignorance yet again. I find it odd that such a great mind failed to realize that the only kind of communism we've seen in practice has been Leninized communism, which is a bastardization of Marx's philosophy. Further, communism only works if everyone in the society is truly equal. Communism works well in the small tribal model. If it can work in larger, industrialized societies (and I believe it can), then it cannot be done by force. Communism doesn't work if it's being forced upon the people by a government. This is the reason why it hasn't succeeded on a large scale yet. I don't count China and Cuba as truly communist; they are merely totalitarian governments with a vaguely Communist flavor, the same way a dead pig tastes a little like human flesh. Just as the pig tasting like a human does not mean the pig IS a human, the Communist flavor of China and Cuba does not make them true communist countries.
It is my opinion that humans are not yet evolved enough for large-scale communism to ever occur naturally, and work. I think, currently, that a good interim model would be a kind of cross between tribalism and globalism, with anarchism thrown in; humans would organize in tribes the size either of a city-state or into many tribes per city. The economy would be mostly local, with some globalization... global electricity grid, for one; some global trading for rare products; tribes experiencing a surplus of food production would share with those whose luck isn't so good, possibly in exchange for goods or services present or future; other necessities which could be shared would be, if needed (such as labor, if there appeared a labor shortage). There might possibly be some sort of organization or multiple organizations dedicated to mediating disputes, but their word would not be law in any sense.
So yes, Robert Anton Wilson may have had a lot of fascinating insights, but he's got his flaws, too. I still recommend his works highly.
1 = Damn, trying to write in E-Prime "is" extremely difficult. I keep using forms of "to be" and drawing a blank as to how to say it differently. DAMN ARISTOTLEAN LANGUAGE HYPNOTIZING ME SO EFFECTIVELY!
The dangers of rigid thinking.
Oct. 4th, 2012 07:25 pmFeminists of that kind are a patriarchal conspiracy to make feminism look bad!
Now, I don't know whether or not I really believe that, per se, but I think this is a good example of how rigid/fundamentalist modeltheism reflects poorly on the model the zealot has so much zeal for.
The grey world and your grey matter.
Sep. 28th, 2012 04:19 pmSome people get that much, and despair. Or they rebel, and say science is unspiritual. They just don't Get It. They don't grok!
Then there are the people like me who get the rest of the implications of this model. We grok it, and so what seems to the others like a cause for despair is, to us, reason to fall to our knees in awe and wonder. Because what they don't grok about this is something far more important than the greyness of the scientific model. They don't understand that this means the human brain is the most mysterious and awe-inspiring thing in all existence!
Think about it a moment: if all light is just this inherently colorless energy - no red, blue, green, or even white, then where do colors come from? From the brain, of course! If you're thinking "no big deal," then consider this old yarn:
Person A: "Anything is possible with imagination!"
Person B: "Imagine a new color."
Person A: *despairs, because s/he cannot imagine a new color*
Yes, it is possible to imagine the possibility of a new color, but what would a new color look like? It's impossible to know until it happens to you, and then it's impossible to describe to anyone who doesn't have the same ability to see it as you do. How do you describe what "blue" looks like to someone who's color blind? If they can't see the color blue, it's impossible to describe it to them.
So really, this is an astounding thing. If the real world "is" colorless, odorless, and completely devoid of any Aristotlean essences, then this makes the human brain truly astonishing. I was going to call it an artist, at first, but it goes deeper than that. Evolution has gifted us with a brain that regularly sees things that don't exist. The brain takes sensory data and uses it to paint for us a world full of colors, sounds, smells, and touch sensations that have no existence outside human brain software.
In my opinion, this means the human brain is the closest thing I can think of to God. If an external God exists, it is the God that made the world a colorless grey place devoid of beauty and meaning. Then humans evolved and we saw colors and beauty and heard music! Our brains are gods, living in a world that is mostly imaginary, based only loosely on a very limited, filtered, and compressed set of sensory data. The human brain is God because it gave the universe SOUL.
Science, bitches! With the right perspective, it will give you deeper, more meaningful spiritual experiences than any religion can give you.
Deepness is relative.
Sep. 25th, 2012 01:23 amBut that isn't deep. I'll show you deep:
The red rose is not red because red light is not red. The real universe has no colors, smells, or anything else of the sort. It "is" colorless and odorless. It "is" just a bunch of particles/waves moving through spacetime. Your senses take readings, the same way sensors on a spaceship in Star Trek do, and relay that data to your brain.
The universe you experience with your senses "is" your brain taking that raw, limited sensory data and creating a hallucination based on that limited sensory data. The way things look to us "is" due to the brain's software. Red looks the way it does because our brain's software "is" programmed by a combo of DNA programming and environmental programming.
The human brain is like a computer; every human brain being unique, it's like if every computer in the world had its own operating system. But because we have to be able to communicate with one another, there are more similarities than differences between brain operating systems. Which is why we can all recognize red when we see it (unless we're color blind or something of the sort). (This is similar to how computers with different operating systems can communicate web pages and other files over the Internet, and understand one another most of the time.)
So, really, the only thing we can truly say about reality is that it exists. The rest is just our brain hallucinating. And because we're all wired more or less the same, that makes reality mostly a shared hallucination.
Setian Luciferian Sins
Aug. 24th, 2012 08:21 pmRigidity of thought – The only constant is change. Those who are unable to adapt to change will perish or hold others back. Dismissing an idea without at least making a genuine attempt to understand it is a sign that you might be acting stupidly. You cannot know the truth or worth of an idea if you dismiss it out of hand. As Robert Anton Wilson said, “When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.” This is as true of those who consider themselves intelligent science types as it is for those who religious. This is true of everyone, in fact.
Proselytization – In your own space, such as books, blogs, being among others like you, or being by yourself, you may speak as you like. In spaces not your own, do not give your opinion unless asked, and cease when they ask you to stop. It is rude and counterproductive to do otherwise.
Lack of a sense of humor – Pity those without a sense of humor, for the universe is often a very bad joke at our expense. Those who can laugh along during such times will survive, where the others will fall into despair and perish. Taking yourself or others too seriously is a recipe for disaster, and is the cause of myriad wars and other conflicts.
Inappropriate superiority and ageism – It is understandable to feel superior to an adult that might otherwise be an intelligent person if their reality tunnel had not trapped them so they can go neither forward nor back. But too many people decide, either consciously or subconsciously, that they are superior to children just because they are adults. This often leads them to mistreat or even abuse children. There are few lies as common nor as harmful as the belief than adults are inherently superior to children.
Harming children – There is no greater sin than hurting a child through either abuse or neglect. If you cannot treat children with respect, dignity, and love, you do not deserve to have them. Also be aware that children require gentle but firm repetition and explanation of things you take for granted. Expecting them to know everything you know, and punishing them when they show they don't, is a great sin. People who do things like commit the crime of shouting “you know better than that” to a child who clearly is too young to know better deserve scorn and derision, and do not deserve to have children.
Destroying works of art or writing – Willfull destruction of art, writing, or any work of creativity is never excusable, no matter how much you may object to the work. To throw any idea, no matter how absurd or evil, into the darkness only gives Yahweh Silver Tongue and Ahriman more power. To in any way diminish the cultural heritage of humanity is unforgivable.
Lack of perspective – One must strive at all times to keep things in perspective, to consider as many points of view as possible. If this requires drastic measures sometimes, then so be it. There are far too many people in the world who have never experienced true hunger, never truly worried about making ends meet, and never had to work a day in their life and yet wield power over people with problems they have never experienced firsthand and have no possible way of understanding. This leads to extremely “poor” (if you'll mind the pun) and self-serving leadership, which will eventually end in economic collapse or worse. This is just one of many examples of what can go wrong when one lacks perspective, and possibly not even the worst example.
Prejudice – Being prejudicial against someone because of their skin color, ethnicity, clothing, birth sex, gender expression, body modifications, weight, body shape, and even religion does not serve The Light; such prejudice serves only Ahriman and Yahweh Silver Tongue. Prejudice is the tool of the enemy, to drive us apart. But flesh is transitory, and we are all Demons under the skin; we were all born of the Fires of Hell. We all have the same capability of traveling the xeper road to become Demon Gods. Our Demon souls do not often share information with our mortal minds, and so when freed from the flesh we often have greater perspective than we did in the flesh; as such, the Demon soul may choose to live a life of someone of the same type that its previous lifetime oppressed. The goal of xeper is to get the mortal mind in line with the Demon soul. This could be incorrect, of course. But even if is, it is nonetheless true that prejudice does not make any sense, and serves only Ahriman and His dark allies. As part of the xeper path, we must discover all of our prejudices and work to dismantle them, because they do not serve the purpose of xeper, and they do not serve the goal of spreading enlightenment and freedom to others.
And of course, the original Satanic Sins by Anton LaVey:
( Under the cut )
Setian Luciferian Statements
Aug. 18th, 2012 06:24 pmSetian Luciferian Statements
1. Sutekh represents the quest for xeper (kef-fer), for becoming a Demon God at death through the cultivation of the mind and spirit, and through passing on knowledge and wisdom to those around you before you die. For it was the cultivation of intelligence, cleverness, and building communities that got us here to being the dominant multi-cellular species on the planet. Further cultivation of the mind, spirit, and body will lead to further use of the Burning Onyx, and we shall become Demon Gods.
2. Sutekh represents the legacies of those who came before us, and their continued existence in Demon or Demon God form, so we may still speak with and learn from those who trod the path before us. For we are all Demons at heart, with souls of Hellfire, and all matter and energy in the universe is at least partly Hellfire, making us all One, as well as being Many.
3. Sutekh represents the knowledge that the quest for xeper is not easy; it is a difficult, life-long path requiring much effort. It is easy to become disheartened when the path is not going well, or tired even when it is. Take a break now and then, and have patience with the process.
4. Sutekh represents working with Demon Gods, not worshiping them, for we are Demon Gods in the making. We all have the capability to become a Demon God through the process of xeper. Worship of any entity other than yourself is counterproductive to the xeper process, as it requires setting aside your dignity, and distracts you from the path. The Demon Gods are mighty forces; they neither want nor need your worship. Your worship means as much to them as would the adoration of ants to a brontosaurus. They walk among us only to serve as tools on our path of xeper, and only because it serves their own needs as well; the more demons of flesh become Demon Gods, the better for the side of Light against the day the darkness of Ahriman returns.
5. Lucifer represents neither indulgence nor abstinence, but moderation. Over-indulgence has at least as many negative consequences, after all, as abstinence, and neither is very fun. The most fun can be had in moderation.
Planning on reading Nietzsche.
Jan. 29th, 2012 02:15 pmI got the idea to do this because, along with seeing quotes of his that I liked, and hearing the truth about his philosophies, I was also reminded by a short story called "The Last Ride of German Freddie" by Walter Jon Williams. Williams seems to understand Nietszche's philosophies very well, and the story includes the truth of his life, how his sister changed his works, etc. That in mind, the story *is* alternate history, basically "What if Nietzsche had gone to the Wild West and tested out his ubermensch philosophy to destruction?"
Speaking of Walter Jon Williams, you should find and read an anthology called "The Green Leopard Plague and other stories" by Walter Jon Williams. (Especially the first three stories in it.) It's a shame they don't have some of his other books I want to read. (He writes a whole spectrum of scifi, from distopic to utopic, and all the library seems to have are his distopic works. I hate distopic books).
(If you're wondering why I'm doing Me: and then Me: without any Lilla: between them,1 it's because I'm marking the beginnings of individual Facebook comments.)
Lilla's original post: Read through all the optionses, there are some that are very specific *to* tolerance even though they are open to the option of *not* tolerating certain groups. Take a look. (Nazis etc.)
Me, commenting: Being a Nazi is not a religion.
Lilla: Actually, yes it is. The Neo-Nazi movement members worship Hitler as their God.
Me: I find this amusing, seeing as Adolf "Uniball" Hitler was basically the Polish equivalent of the "inbred Appalachian hick" stereotype, with the worst case of daddy issues ever. Freud would have gotten several dozen books out of psychoanalyzing Uniball's obsession with wiping out his daddy's whole race.
(Hitler's father was also his uncle; Hitler Senior married his niece and the result was little Adolf. Little Adolf was beat mercilessly but was always not quite right in the head. As an artist, he was mediocre. He would have died a mediocre artist, but he just HAD to get into politics.)
Me: The fact that the Nazis actually worship him is thus faintly amusing. But if Nazism has mutated into a religion, then this is one religion I wouldn't mind watching its practitioners being rounded up and locked away forevermore in Gitmo.
Lilla: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCXApAp9XGg&skipcontrinter=1
"The ideological origins of Nazism derive from Romanticism, nineteenth-century idealism, and a eugenic interpretation of Friedrich Nietzsche's concepts of "breeding upwards" — towards the Übermensch ("Superman"). Such ideas, as espoused by the Ariosophical Germanenorden (German Order) and the Thule Society much influenced Adolf Hitler's world-view."
Me: NEANDERTHAL PRIDE! We are Neanderthals and damned proud of it! All you Homo Sapiens Sapiens can go back to Africa where you came from!
(I apologize for any insult to real Neanderthals.)
Me: Yes, and Nietzsche would be fucking PISSED AS FUCK and rolling in his grave at that fact, if he isn't already. Because he HATED racists. Here, I'll quote Cracked.com's article about it:
"If Nietzsche wasn't too busy being dead, he would probably have had a few words with Hitler about the fuehrer's liberal interpretation of his work, due mainly to the fact that Nietzsche hung around with entirely the wrong crowd. His sister, Elisabeth, and good friend, composer Richard Wagner, were both as Nazi as the goose-step.
After Nietzsche died, Elisabeth inherited the rights to his works and went about diligently re-editing them with a "kill all the Jews" subtext. It didn't help that Nietzsche's thought-baton was then picked up by the philosopher Martin Heidegger -- you guessed it: Nazi.
Nietzsche actually hated anti-Semites, having refused to attend his sister's wedding because she was marrying a Nazi, and even wrote that "anti-Semites should be shot." We have his sister to thank for the "blond beast" confusion. She, Hitler and decades of disapproving philosophy students interpret this as an allusion to the Aryan race. In fact, Nietzsche was just describing lions.
And as for the "superman" thing, rather than referring to some genetically pure German dictator, Nietzsche was just making a generic statement about people who believe in the subjectivity of morals and seek to find their own values in the world -- a concept wholly incompatible with just following the whim of some guy with a hate-boner for some specific race. Interpreting Zarathustra's message as a call to raise an army and purge the world of undesirables is something akin to believing that Animal Farm was really a warning about farm animals taking over the world."
http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong_p2.html
Lilla: For those of the Romantic movement of philosophers, there were two things more revered than anything: The original pure state, as it was thought, of man's natural and innocent pre-urban days (artists during that period include the pre-Raphaelite artists like Gabrielli, cite it in a bit, lol) and of nature's pre-urban, pure state. The NAZI party was (and the Neo-Nazi party is) partly socialistic, (a political *and* social school of thought) partly social Darwinism, and the same idealism much nicer people during the Romantic period than the Nazis or Neo-Nazis ever were as a whole.
Me: Gods, I hate social Darwinism. Whoever thought of that shit completely missed the point of Darwinism. True social Darwinism would focus on cooperation and helping thy fellow man, because "survival of the fittest" means "survival of those who are best equipped in a particular environment to survive," and in humanity's case, it was cooperation, compassion, and our social networking skills that got us to the top of the food chain. Anyone who thinks humans are better off competing "dog eat dog" is a complete waste of oxygen.
Lilla: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtS1G0F7wT4
Me: Hitler as a Nazi made no fucking sense anyway, since he was more than half Jew himself (due to his mother being his father's niece) and looked about as Aryan as Osama Bin Laden did. Furthermore, the whole "Aryans are white" business is complete rubbish, seeing as the Aryans came from India.
As to my earlier "Neanderthal pride" comment... I was only partly joking. There is strong evidence that Caucasian humans only came to be from the black Cro-magnons mating with the "white"-skinned Neanderthals. But if the racists ever think of using this to say non-whites are another species, well, the bad news for them is that all modern humans are related to both Neanderthals and Cro Magnon, to some degree. And the fact still remains that, due to a genetic bottleneck 10,000 years ago, there is less genetic diversity separating the blackest African from the whitest European than there is between short-haired Chihuahuas and long-haired Chihuahuas.
1 = For example...
Me: Blah blah blah
Me: Blorch glarb fnorch
as opposed to...
Me: Blah blah blah
Lilla: Blah blah blah
Me: Blorch glarb fnorch
I am unusual for a Satanist.
Aug. 31st, 2011 10:04 pmSo yeah. I'm a Satanist who actually agrees with some of the things Yeshua ben Yosef (AKA "Jesus Christ")said. Do I like Christianity? Hell no. Christianity is to Yeshuah's teachings as modern Republicans are to the original Republicans: that is, Christianity pays lip service to, and worships, Yeshuah, but doesn't actually abide by any of his liberal teachings, just as the Republican party has drifted away from budget prudence and smaller government to where it now stands for warmongering, tax cuts for the wealthy, and religion-influenced government to interfere in people's lives. Christianity is Christianity in name only, and has been that way since the founding of the Church in Rome, at least. To piss on Yeshuah and disregard his liberal politics just because the Church basically went "Ignore all that liberal claptrap. Here, be distracted by this Jesus who is not in any way a recycled pagan godform made from about half a dozen different pagan gods sewn together like a Frankenstein's monster."
So yes, I still dislike Christianity, because it's a piece of shit religion with a mockery of a man being called a god. Also, the New and Old Testaments don't fucking fit together; it's like splicing Die Hard and some romantic comedy together and expecting it to make sense.
But for all that some jackasses went and made a shitty religion out of him, I still respect Yeshuah ben Yosef as a mortal human being who was a good philosopher with a lot of points I agree with. Do I agree with it all? Hell no. That whole "be meek" bullshit may work sometimes, like it worked for Ghandi, but only if your enemy is too gentle themselves to just fucking shoot you in the head for resisting.
Besides which, can't anyone tell that despite what they say they believe, most Christians already secretly believe the totally fucked-up, misunderstood version of "survival of the fittest." Think about that a moment: a religion worshiping a mockery of a dead liberal, that practices conservatism, rejecting evolution and yet embracing social darwinism. FUCKED. UP. And Satanists who believe in the same fucking social darwinism that the Christians do, and yet claim to be somehow different than the Christians... well, okay, so they're a bit more honest about it, but it's still the same fucked up shit in a different container. Christianity's hypocrisy is like pissing in a bottle and calling it Mountain Dew. And a lot of Satanists seem to pour that same piss into a different bottle and call it Pepsi.
Sorry, just venting my spleen a bit.
Yes, people. Sometimes the fittest species are the ones that cooperate. Not just with others of their kind, either. Look at symbiosis, things like lichens where two or more different species combine into one. Hell, if it weren't for cooperation, we wouldn't have multicellular organisms. Or even single-celled organisms as we know them today! (Mitochondria, among others, were originally seperate organisms.)
So I'd say, from that point of view, cooperation is FAR more important than competition. By several dozen orders of magnitude.
Religions/philosophies by mantras
Nov. 27th, 2009 10:03 pmBuddhism: BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE!
Right-wing Christians: OPPRESS OPPRESS OPPRESS! (Or "WHINE WHINE WHINE!")
Extremist Muslims: KILL KILL KILL!
Satanism: SIN SIN SIN!
Atheism: EVOLVE EVOLVE EVOLVE!
Capitalism: BUY BUY BUY!
Communism: SHARE SHARE SHARE!
Just the beginnings of an idea. Add your own as you please. Or as you don't please. <subliminal message>send me money now!</subliminal message>
(no subject)
Dec. 25th, 2008 12:06 amBut I know for a fact that persistence can pay off. When I was a child in Shenandoah, Iowa, I was bullied a lot by a neighbor kid Who I will simply call JR. And many Satanists may call it weakness, but I tolerated his bullying because I have naturally leaned, throughout my life, towards compassion and patience. And my patience paid off in his case. Apparently impressed that I did not run away or whine or cry or even fight back, he finally desisted. This did not work with any future bullies until high school, and even then it worked poorly, but I believe that to be the result of other factors that did not exist that first time. At any rate, though, I believe this to be the origin of my interpretation of Jesus's "turn the other cheek" - a Satanic interpretation: when you are seemingly unaffected by a blow, or are affected but you stand back up anyway, even if they kill you they cannot defeat you. Bravery may not always be condusive to survival, but I think there are enough times when such a tactic would work that it justifies the risk.
Still, the world is not about absolutes, and ultimately what tactics you use in survival situations depends on the situation. Take, for instance, a mugging. Now LaVeyan philosophy, if you take it too literally, would seem to suggest to take the option of force to defend yourself. But if the robber is masked, and is a stranger to you, the best course of action is cooperation; it is unlikely in such a case that the robber would have any reason to harm you. If he is unmasked, of course, this means you can identify him, and so he will probably kill you either way if he is to get away with his crime. So in that case, do whatever necessary to do whatever necessary to defend yourself.
Satanism is, ultimately, a practical and intellectual religion, and therefore I do not think LaVey ever intended anyone to become dogmatic about Satanism's philosophies - because there are always multiple answers to any riddle, and the whole point of life seems, given the lack of Answers, to be a chance to make your own mark on the world, to create your own answers.
And getting back to the point, one of humanity's answers is cooperation. Kindness and compassion are parts of that cooperation.